[holkat]

I am really interested to learn what others views are on this, whether or not this is an area for debate or I am just thinking about it all wrong! Do you treat the addiction in your loved ones as an illness or a choice they make? I have always been of the understanding that addiction is very much an illness, yet many people relate to it being choices the person is making. I struggle very much with how I feel about my partners drinking and how to respond to him. Should I be sympathetic or annoyed? Should I continue trying to help and support him, or is he making a choice to lie to me and continue drinking? Is it one or the other? Or a bit of both? I feel completely confused and lost as to how to feel about it all and I would be really interested in hearing from others on this as I am really struggling right now. Thank you.

[lizzie1210]

This is something I spend a huge amount of time wondering about and which has caused friction in my family. To be honest, I go back and forth at different times. In my case, the addict in my family abuses coke as well as alcohol. I know with drugs they can completely change brain synapses and hormones, so it is much harder for them to make sound judgements. And surely no rational person would ‘choose’ to live in filth, have no money, be isolated and live in constant fear of dealers. But then sometimes I think maybe he chooses that because it’s easier than dealing with the responsibilities of a ‘normal’ adult life with thousands of decisions and interactions each day. I get frustrated as my parents are definitely in the ‘illness’ camp, and I feel they are absolving him of responsibility, and I also see this in how they’ve treated him generally (he is the youngest child, got away with more etc).

I think it’s normal for you to feel conflicted about this. Sometimes I feel blind rage at what he’s doing to himself and my family and I think he’s irresponsible. Sometimes I feel desperate sadness and it seems obvious it’s an illness. What I struggle with is working in a healthcare setting where there are people who are terminally physically ill – literally nothing can be done for them. Whereas addiction can be treatable, plenty of people go on to recover so why can’t they start making better decisions?

Sorry, quite rambly! It feels like a lot tonight

[holkat]

Thank you so much for your response and sharing your personal insight and experience, that in itself makes me feel so much better!

I am probably like you in that I go back and forth, but it’s almost as if I need someone to tell me which one it is so I can stick to reacting one way or another or I can make a decision based on what is the right way. I know really that it isn’t that easy, the more I’ve thought about it, the more it’s fascinated me to learn more about other peoples views on it.

I work in mental health and it makes me wonder if it’s a bit of a similar dilemma…we encourage people to make a choice to get treatment and improve their mental health, but then different conditions are seen in different ways. In a similar way to what you said about people who are terminally ill, or any physical illness, we would only ever expect a specialist or professional to be able to treat those kind of illnesses, so why is addiction or mental health any different? We wouldn’t expect someone with cancer or a broken leg to try and cure or fix it themselves, so is it fair/right to expect that of an addict or someone with depression or bi-polar?

It’s something I haven’t thought about in this much depth really until I’ve found myself in this situation with my partner, I’ve always been aware of addiction of course, and felt the ‘right’ way to look at it is to consider it as an illness, but it’s more difficult and complex when it’s a part of your life.

Thanks again, it’s just really helpful to be able to express and hear others views, very much appreciated 🙂

[lizzie1210]

Absolutely. Before my brother got ill I was firmly in the ‘addiction is an illness’, compassionate camp. But seeing their behaviour up close can test that theory, especially when they’re treating elderly relatives terribly for example. Having therapy has helped me feel less guilty about these thoughts, and that it’s ok to be angry and frustrated with addicted relatives.

I suppose with physical illnesses, people still have to stick to treatments, and to want to get better. I have clinical depression (not helped by my brother, sigh), but I’ve got better at managing it with self help, meds and therapy. I feel that I’ve taken responsibility for my illness, and it can still get really bad, but I put effort in. I get frustrated with my brother having the option of getting help but not taking it up. Even if it’s just going through the motions of logging into an online meeting and trying the ‘fake it till you make it’ approach.

So useful to hear from someone else feeling the same way

[helen40]

Hi ya, I feel I’ve been where you are. I felt like I tried every avenue to try and support my drinking husband…shouting, monitoring, soothing…. I lost myself. I didnt start to acknowledge this wasn’t the path. I went to Al anon which was the first time I admitted it was out of my control. I have a daughter and sadly clutched onto the idea we could be a happy family. I’ve not got tonnes of things right but detaching helped my sanity. Still I clutch at a hope but my relationship has fallen apart, since I’ve tried not to manage the situation. I’ve not the answers you want but would encourage a support group to guide you to whats normal and whats not. Just don’t lose yourself to something you cant control. I hope for your family you find a future you want.

[the-bard]

You are not alone in asking those questions. Living and loving anyone who has an addiction is incredibly difficult and puts you on a never ending emotional roller coaster. So the answer of how to react is all of the above. I know from sad experience with my partner who is an alcoholic in total denial.

As to it being an illness or choice I am currently in the camp of it being a choice. People don’t choose to be ill, i know as I watched my mum succumb to cancer and she would have given anything to have not had that awful disease. However, if you make life choices such as smoke, drink or do drugs knowing that they will impact your physical and mental health then that is your choice to make, and also your choice to stop and get help before the consequences become irreversible.

It comes down to the addict taking personal responsibility for their actions and asking for help. If they choose to do neither then no one else can help them.

The only person you can help is yourself. You have to focus on you and not their addiction. It’s hard to do, however it empowers you and breaks the cycle of enabling / codependecy which ultimately helps them.

Remember, if they fall don’t pick them up. They have to suffer the consequences of their actions to make them want to change.

[melb]

Gg

[melb]

How do I post a question

[davetall]

hi HOLKAT I’m totally with you on this and i think its the way addiction gets you . I find is so frustrating and get so angry when i hear how much our family member wants to stop drinking himself into and early grave but refuses to fully engage with the professional help and support that’s being offered too him . I get so angry when he sits at my house in tears asking for help and then lies about taking it any further than a telephone call and then excuse after excuse not to reengage with them on a regular basis . It feels like he is choosing alcohol over reason every time , i said too him a few weeks ago if hitting your hand with a big hammer hurts stop doing it , but then i remember he is an addict it is an illness .

The problem comes in the support or the enablement its hard to stop doing that under the guise that its an illness and they need help , the enablement has to stop because it is an illness not increase , the help has to come from them wanting it , and im not sure my family member is ready . My concern is where will he be and how far will he fall before he is ready ??? if at all

[holkat]

Thanks for all your posts everyone and helping me to not feel so alone. When I posted it part of me was a bit scared that people would say, of course it’s an illness not a choice! So it really helps to know other people struggle with this as well and have different views.

We’re having such a tough time at the moment and it’s a perfect example of not knowing what to think, how to view this or do for the best. He hasn’t engaged at all yet with any support services, and I am practically begging him to get help. He is very depressed and just fixates on how crap life is and how nobody cares so what’s the point of getting help. This is where I struggle – is it purely that he’s unwell which is stopping him seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, or are these just excuses not to engage or get help?

I am trying so hard to understand but then I struggle to understand it because to me, help is literally a phone call away. I know our local alcohol service is extremely supportive and can assess quickly to get people the right help. He just won’t entertain it at all.

Because of Covid, he’s lost his job and can’t find another at the moment and I know he is desperately trying to. Money is very soon going to become a problem. Yet he still goes out for a walk and comes back 4 hours later having been drinking. So is he actually choosing to spend what little money we have left on a few cans, even knowing the position we’re in? Another dilemma for me to try and navigate in terms of him making choices.

I can see that he is going through a truly awful time, he’s scared, he’s depressed, he’s got no hope or confidence, he’s drinking for whatever his reasons are. And I’m here just trying my best to understand, be supportive, be sympathetic, but then sometimes it feels like he doesn’t want support or solutions, it sometimes feels like he wants to stay hopeless. He reacts by either completely ignoring me, or getting defensive and frustrated at me as if I’m just nagging him.

I just don’t know what else I can do, to understand but also what action I can or should take. I could leave him, go off and live my life and let him go and do whatever he wants to do with his, but he is at his lowest point and honestly, I am scared of what he could do if I left, because I do care about him. Yet, if he won’t get any help, how much longer am I able to live my life like this? Not knowing if he’s had a drink today, being on edge waiting to see if he has or not, walking on egg shells not wanting to be nagging, fighting the urge to just scream at him to please just do something and get some help, in this constant ‘illness or choice’ dilemma and not even knowing myself how to feel about it or how to respond. I don’t want to live like this and I don’t want him to. I feel pretty stuck right now.

[icarus-trust]

Hi Holcat,

Thank you for posting and I’m glad that you don’t feel so alone now you have found this forum.

If you would like more support you might like to contact us at Icarus Trust. We are a charity set up to support the family members around those with addictions. we know how difficult it is to cope. If you get in touch one of our family Friends would talk with you. they are good listeners and would understand what you are going through. Talking with one of them might help you to answer some of your questions and make sense of how you are feeling. the Family Friend would also be able to let you know what other support we could offer.

You can contact Icarus Trust on help@icarustrust.org or visit our website http://www.icarustrst.org

Good luck with everything.

[bea58]

Hi. I am new to this forum. My 29 year old son is a drug addict. I also don’t know how to treat. I have given him the mum wings treatment but believe this is not the right thing now as it hasn’t worked. The crisis team and mental health team kept saying I was only enabling him. He has psychosis which is a heartbreaking thing to see. I have made the huge decision to stop enabling him and let him hit rock bottom. Don’t know where that rock bottom is going to be but, will be there when he falls. Drugs or alchohol start as a choice. It makes them ill so it’s a mixture of both. Yes, they still have choices and help but can only overcome if they want to. As loved ones, we will beat ourselves up and blame ourselves. Cry endlessly and forget our own happiness.

[holkat]

I’m so sorry to hear about your son, mental health along with addiction is such a huge challenge. I think about how I need to let my partner hit rock bottom, it’s so terrifying wondering what rock bottom is going to look like, I just live in fear every time I think we’re there.

Really appreciate you sharing your experience and your views. I hope each and everyone of us can find some solace, some happiness one day, and that our loved ones will accept the help and support they need xx

[lizzie1210]

Bea58, sorry to hear about your son. I’m experiencing similar with my brother who is around the same age as your son. He also has psychosis with his cocaine and alcohol abuse, also under the crisis team. Here if you want to talk – it is unbearably hard coping with seeing them go through both hideous conditions

[sb123]

I can really identify with how you are feeling as I am having the same internal debate. My husband has just relapsed after around 3 weeks off alcohol. He has once again been lying to me and hiding his drinking from me. I had a good chat with my best friend about it who is very upset about the impact his decisions are having on me and she feels very strongly that he is choosing to drink and therefore choosing to upset me. I know that if the roles were reversed I would be saying the same thing to her.

However the research I am doing clearly points to the illness making these decisions and that my husband is simply not capable of making good choices when he is so addicted. I know that he is a wonderful person and he is more miserable than anyone about the situation. I just don’t know if I am making excuses for him when I should be holding him accountable.

[alb10]

NaNs what you have described is exactly the dilemma I feel that I am in. My husband has just lost his job due to drinking. He waited 6 weeks before telling me. He has finally admitted he has a problem and told the children. He says he is stopping and hasn’t had a drink for 2 days. But now I feel stuck. I want him to be proactive in getting help as I know he won’t get through this on his own but I don’t know how much I should push. He’s already getting annoyed and saying that I’m nagging ????

[davetall]

It’s going to be a long road , in my experience they can take support as suffocation , it isn’t it what they are feeling is guilt , guilt because they see how there addiction is hurting those around them but also accountability and guilt when they can’t live up to the promises they have given

[holkat]

I think from everyone’s feedback it’s always going to be a bit of back and forth isn’t it. I feel like our whole relationship is going round in these circles. Current mood? Indifferent. This time last week? Anger, hurt, determined to leave. Next week, who knows. I guess at the moment I still live in hope because he is doing other things to improve himself and get better. I live in this hope where, maybe if I just act ok with it and let it happen without passing comment, he’ll stop. Maybe when this pandemic is all over and other parts of life go back to some kind of normality, so will this. Or maybe that’s just an excuse because I don’t want to let go of some hope he’ll get better.

[destin32541]

I do believe it is an illness, some people have an addictive trait. My husband comes from a family who all suffer from some kind of addiction, mostly alcohol. I don’t have that trait. I enjoy a drink and can stop and have a cup of tea. I used to get so angry at my husbands drinking. Now l am angry because of the way he talks to me. Hopi k pick picks spoiling for a row. He was criticizing my driving so much one day that l pulled up so hard that l nearly put him through the windscreen. That’s what’s ares me is my anger and l am not usually that way. I want to enjoy every day not have this heavy cloud hanging over me.

[sarah008]

Hi Holkat,

I think what you’re feeling is completely natural and that addiction and choice are actually so intertwined you don’t know where one ends and the other begins.

On bad days I think it’s obviously a choice to put the drug in your system, no one forces them to, they weren’t born needing it and lived a life pre addiction where they existed without it.

But then on other days I think nobody in their right mind would chose to be an addict and how awful it must be to have a compulsion you can’t control. Something that makes you into a shadow of the person you used to be, causes you to lose so many things and jeopardises relationships.

I suppose the nature of addiction is it creeps up on a person, what can go from recreational or social use of alcohol or drugs can slowly become a coping mechanism and a crutch. What once was a choice becomes a necessity and the fear of losing that crutch is greater than the fear of losing jobs, their home, friends and family.

But then ultimately they have to chose to fight their addiction with all the treatment options there are available. People can recover from addiction, whereas sadly people with some physical illnesses don’t have the option of treatment and recovery.

Essentially I’m just as confused about this conundrum as you! Make sure you take some time out for yourself though, self care is important x

[holkat]

Thanks for your reply, the way you’ve explained it is really helpful! And I would definitely agree with everything you’ve said. And thank your for talking about self care, you’re right it’s very important and I think it’s something that myself, and probably many others, do neglect because we’re trying to always be there for our loved ones without thinking about the impact on ourselves, or feeling that we deserve to be happy and look after ourselves. I know that’s something I am fighting for at the moment, to feel that I do deserve to be happy. I am with my partner because I do love and care about him very much, but I should also strive to be happy myself, and if our relationship is not functioning in a way we can both have some happiness and support each other, maybe it’s better for us to move on.

[kellsbells]

Gosh I could have written your last post myself.

My partner has always liked a drink, but never got drunk. He had a breakdown and the anti depressants increase alcohol in his system.

August 2019, he started drinking shorts. Rum and then vodka. A small amount and he gets drunk. I feel guilty for not making him come off them. I knew what they’d do as he was on them years back and alcohol didn’t mix back them.

I just kept saying he should make the right choice. Not sure he was in the right headspace at all to do so.

A year on, he’s agreed to rehab. It’s been a lot of sweet talking and encouragement, but he’s agreed and wants it. Hasn’t stopped him drinking. I know it’s an illness. The addiction sets in….but, I still believe there’s an element of choice. He says he drinks outta habit. Sunday’s for example, he doesn’t always drink cos he knows he has work Monday. Thousands have people have stopped drinking, so there is an element of choice I do think.

Maybe that makes me feel better cos it breaks my heart to think of it as an illness.

Rehab will be months and months off, if he does get a place.

Since last year, he was furloughed five months which spiralled his drinking, and then he’s had times he’s been sent home from work. Now he’s had a gross misconduct.

I feel numb now. Hatred at times. I used to search for bottles and cover, but not now. It’s on him.

I feel like I’m losing out on my life. I wanted kids and it’s not happening. Not fully cos of his drinking, but partly that. I worry like you, that if I left, how he would cope. I don’t think it would stun him into stopping. It would do the opposite and he would drink more and give up.

[holkat]

Hi Kellsbells, thanks for your response and I’m sorry to hear what you’re going through. I can relate completely to your experiences and the way it makes you feel. There are some days I can’t even bare to look at him or be around him (mostly when I know he’s been drinking) and I’ll just slope off upstairs to get away from him. And then I sit in the bedroom watching TV thinking, ‘this is my house as well, and I’m sat in my bedroom?!’ And it just shines a spotlight every time on how dysfunctional our whole relationship actually is.

I was just saying on another post about that fear of what he would do if we ended. I am so terrified of that, but I am also trying to tell myself that I am not responsible for his behaviour, his actions. With my partner, he is not fully dependent and he does not drink every single day, so he does have some time spent sober, where he can think and make decisions for himself. So I will not take responsibility for his actions and I shouldn’t because he is his own person and that would never be fair on me.

I genuinely feel I have done everything I can to be there for him. I am not saying I’m perfect or I’ve always gone about it the right way, but I have tried my best to learn. I’ve called helplines and use this forum, and I’ve done lots of reading and research about addiction and childhood trauma to try and understand what he might be going through, as well as learn different ways to approach him and support him. Maybe I’m not doing it right or something I don’t know, but I can honestly say I have tried my best. The sad thing for me is I don’t think he really sees the extent I’ve tried to help him and he still can’t seem to change or accept help.

At this moment in time (4:30am on Good Friday – woke up at 2 to find he’s fallen asleep downstairs with bread in the oven, luckily turned itself off but the bread is a black lump!) I think we’d both be happier and better off apart. But, I just can’t seem to bring myself to make the words come out of my mouth and I don’t know why?! Maybe I’ll get some courage soon to take the step I don’t know…time will tell I suppose.

I hope you’re ok, look after yourself and keep talking on the forum, I hope it helps in some way x

[kellsbells]

I’m so sorry. You know straight away what the following day has in store when they fall asleep downstairs.

My partner has had a bad week. Like yours, he can keep off it. He’s gone a few weeks before when he needed to start new medication, and he’s plenty of times he’s withdrawn.

We are supposed to be seeing my family in the garden today and he’s so excited to see my nephews, but I know by 1 he will have drank. He’s “taken the dog a walk.” He’s getting cigarettes, so I know he will get a bottle.

You sound like you’ve been patient and tried everything for him. Don’t blame yourself or feel guilty about anything. I know it’s hard, but we can’t change them. I feel guilt now and then over the very start of it. I knew from years ago that this certain anti depressant didn’t suit him when he drank any alcohol and he got drunk fast, but when the Dr gave him it this time around, I thought tough. It did help his mental health, but I could see what it was doing and didn’t help. Even on shandy’s you could tell he’d drank. I told him to stop altogether, but he didn’t. The logic of going onto vodka is beyond me, but everyone tells me to stop blaming myself.

He lost his licence over being silly. He took my car to the chip shop, he’d had shandy’s earlier on. Car broke down, my recovery was delayed and so the police stopped by and of course he failed the test. I think his driving awareness course telling him about vodka being better units didn’t help.

My partner isn’t strong willed to make changes, which worries me.

He broke down last night and so’s she hates how he is. He often does this.

He finally agreed to AA. He hates speaking in front of others, but said he will try.

You’re already detaching by taking yourself away from him when he’s drank which is good, but yeah I totally get why having to go upstairs annoys you, I’d be the same. I long for the time he goes to bed, for some time alone.

I hope your Easter gets better. Chat whenever you need to x

[destin32541]

I recently read up on codependency. I am definately a lot of that and it sounds like you are too. I am now practicing detachment which in turn should help stop the codependency. A friend recently gave me advice that she got from a counceller…..you cannot change another person, only yourself. I know for sure l am my husbands crutch and safety net. I think he feared a seizure on Monday so has not had a drink since then. I did not ask. I am no longer going to ask if he’s taken his pills etc and l must not falter because as soon as l do and he feels better in will come a case of beer, highest alcohol content he can get. It happens every time. I am actually an expat so not on lockdown. I am doing a trip on my own this month meeting up with other ladies from my home town so he can get on with it. I just hope he remembers to let the dog out.

[danman83]

Hey there, I’m now 101 days clean from cocaine after 11 years of using. I hated the stuff in the end and it’s still early days now. I decided to join cocaine anonymous 101 days ago and I’ve been clean ever since.

Now going back to your question.. Is it a disease or not. Its a hard one this. I’m sure it been proven it is. My gf always tells me just say no to it. She does. But it’s not as simple as this.

In AA and CA and in the book, there is bits in it we’re we addicts have an allergy to drugs and drink. This never made sence to me until recently. But for example, my gf will have a drink, she will stop about midnight, she’s had coke in the past, will probably have 1 tiny bit. I have met lots of people who are the same. Now me.. I’d be drinking untill 6am or until its gone, I’d be getting taxis to late shops to buy it if ran out. I would of bought 4 bags of coke, literally be crying when it’s ran out and suicidal. This is were the allergy comes in, where us addicts react different to drugs and alcohol were as others don’t. We have an allergic reaction and it send us off the rails. If you watch a really bad addict and watch him deteriorate slowly over the years. It is like an illness and we can make it better, through meetings and not taking these substances.

I guess there are 2 sides to everything and it is up for debate. My gf hates it when I tell her it’s a disease and she goes mad lol.

I’m not trying to convert you into believing it is, the allergy explanation has me believing it is, but that’s my opinion.

Then I’ve seen a video we’re a guy says, if you have a heroin addict who has heroin in his hand, and you have a gun to his head, and you say.. If u take the heroin I will shoot you dead.. He’s not going to use. So we do have a choice.

You can’t do that with heart disease ect..

So it’s a tricky one.

[holkat]

Hi Danman83,

First of all, AMAZING on your 101 days, what a fantastic achievement you should be so proud!

And secondly, thank you so much for sharing this from your perspective, having experienced addiction. I massively value your input and I’ve spoken to others who’ve been through addiction to try and get an understanding of what it’s like from the other side.

I do believe addiction is an illness and the example you’ve given there is spot on. There are many people out there who would put a drink down and say ‘I’ve had enough’ or do the same with drugs, whereas some people don’t or ultimately can’t.

Looking at addiction from the outside, for me, it seemed much easier to say that, much more clear cut. Now that I am living with an alcoholic, someone who I love and who loves me, it changed my outlook completely – not that I changed my mind about it being an illness but it gave me the insight into what the reality is like for someone with an addiction. As well as that it invited many, many more complex thoughts and emotions for me that I’d never expected.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, I’ve learned a massive lesson in that you can never really have a clear cut picture of what it’s like until you live it, nor can you ever truly understand what it’s like for that person if you’ve never experienced it, no matter how much research you do or how many questions you ask. Part of it for me is almost wishing and willing my partner to believe it’s ‘easy’ or at least easier than he might think to get help, purely out or desperation and terror of what could happen to him and dreading it. Part of it is also I think me being frustrated with him or dismissive because I don’t want to believe this illness is controlling him, I want so much more than anything to somehow give him power over it. But I am also really trying to work through my own stuff, because the way I feel about it and react to him isn’t just about him, it’s also massively about me and all of my own stuff and the person I am. That’s a part of my struggle and battle just as much as his behaviour and what he does or doesn’t do about it. It’s almost like (and this is me being REAL honest) if was to leave him, it would be easier not to hate myself for leaving him if I ‘believe’ he chose to treat me like this rather than him not being able to control the illness or those choices. And that’s all because of who I am, the kind of person I am and how much I would hate myself and feel guilty for the rest of my life if I left him when he’s going through this illness.

I feel like that makes me sound like the most horrible awful person in the world but that’s the truth, and hence why every day is a dilemma and mental battle.

[danman83]

If you really want to quit, you will try anything, I tried everything, I’d come up with plans in the week how to do it. I bought 2 safes to put my phone and car keys in, delete dealers nums, hypnotherapy. I could go on all day. But there is the devil on my shoulder also working away around these.

You don’t sound awful at all. Us addicts put are partners through way to much crap. And we need to put ourselfs in there positions as well. Some guys go missing for 4 days when I’ve read post on here. Imagine the stress it puts on partners. Why the hell should you stick around weather it’s an illness or not.

This is my opinion, if the addict is not prepared to admit he has a problem or she. And is not willing to try and get help, why should the partner stick around and ruin your life aswell. I guess it’s each to there own, and when u love some one you just want to do the best for them and want them to be better, it’s hard I understand.

So whats he like now? Does he drink alot? Is he trying to quit? Has he joined aa?

[holkat]

You obviously have so much strength to do everything you can to quit and it’s really admirable. I can’t begin to imagine how hard it is. And I do agree with you, you at least this is what I go back and forth with all the time, why should I put up with all of this if he isn’t showing any willing to get better? But then the other side, should I be more supportive? Is there more I could do to understand it better or help him in some way? It’s a constant battle and it is draining.

I’ve said on a few posts on here I’ve been thinking for a while that I will leave but I can’t find the right way to say it but I did do it a few days ago. He doesn’t drink copious amounts but he’s now stopped drinking at home and instead goes out for long walks and buys cans at the shop to drink on his way round. He tells me he usually only gets 4 which I do believe because I can tell now how much he’s had by how drunk he seems. He hasn’t engaged with by support services since I’ve know him (3 years) but I know he has in the past before we met.

Last week I think it was Thursday night, I woke up at 2am and went downstairs, he’d been drinking and put a bread in the oven to bake (he’s a chef) and had fallen asleep on the sofa. Luckily the oven turned itself off but the bread was completely black and if it had been a gas oven it would have been a different story. This is after he wrote off my car last year (he had a small bump but airbags went off, I don’t know if he was over the limit but he had had a drink) So on Friday morning I had a proper talk with him. I said, I don’t want to do this anymore. It’s been 6 months, you’ve written off my car, nearly burnt the house down, I don’t want to be around you when you’ve had a drink which is most days, so what has to happen for you to get some help? You hurt yourself in the car? You burn the house down? Does someone have to be physically hurt for it to make you stop? So I said, this relationship isn’t anything , it’s crap, this isn’t working out and I don’t want to deal with it anymore so if that’s it and you’re going to carry on I don’t want to be with you.

He just said all the usual things, that he can stop and wants to stop, he’s going to try not to drink all this week as a start. Friday, Saturday and Sunday, didn’t drink. Monday, went out for a walk, not visibly drunk when he came back but later I smelled it on his breath. I just didn’t say anything. He wasn’t drunk so he probably only had one can, maybe 2 but that’s why it’s a problem isn’t it – he HAS to drink something even if it’s just one. I don’t know how long I’ll leave it before our next conversation but I want to believe I will go through with it.

It’s just such a rubbish situation all round at the moment, I can’t help but hope and wish he will stop or get some help, but I also have to be willing to accept that might not happen and I have to make a choice for myself about my future and the future of our relationship.

[holkat]

I know what you mean, but I always believe no matter how tough it gets for someone or how low a point you get to, there is some strength or courage somewhere inside you that’s made you take that step, and stick to it. Honestly well done, it’s really inspiring. I genuinely do believe my partner has got that in him somewhere, I think that’s why I get so frustrated sometimes.

He has had a pretty traumatic life particularly as a child, and sometimes I think he could have gone down that path as soon as he left home at 16, but he didn’t. He has worked every day of his life since being 16, he is so bright and insightful and intelligent, I KNOW he wants better for himself but he has such low self esteem and lacks so much confidence that’s what stops him, I think anyway. I probably don’t go about it the right way half the time, I try my best not to nag him or smother him with love LOL but sometimes it’s just how I am and I know that doesn’t help. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter what I do he has to do it himself and take that step.

That’s so sad about your friend and it really scared me, there are so many stories and even someone in my family before I was born where they’ve died in a fired because they fell asleep drunk, I cannot bare the thought of it, and obviously I was in the house as well, it just doesn’t bare thinking about!

It does have to be a day by day thing you’re right, I actually tried that way years ago when I stopped smoking ‘just don’t do it today’ and then tomorrow is a different day. I might have suggested that to him in the past but he is so difficult to talk to and I don’t know if he can really think like that.

We don’t have kids together but he has 2 sons from his previous relationship who are 12 and 8. They are brilliant kids and he is truly an amazing dad, they adore him. I’ve tried to talk about them as well when we talk about the drinking just to try and get through to him and I think it does work to an extent. But then it all comes back to exactly what you’re counsellor said, and what you’ve said is exactly what he does. As soon as he gets paid it’s a few cans. I can see how delighted he is on payday and I know that’s why.

Sometimes I think to myself, am I being over the top about this? He isn’t alcohol dependent, he can go days without it and the days he does drink it’s just a few cans, should I lay off, maybe it’s not as bad as I feel like it is? It was much worse last year, when he was working as head chef and they went back to work in the summer after 2 months of furlough, he was drinking 8-10 cans a night for 10 nights on the run, so it’s nowhere near as bad as that now. Maybe I’ve just got so worked up in my head, I’ve made a mountain out of a mole hill.

But I am terrified of what could happen if it continues, I want him to address it now before it gets to that point but he doesn’t seem to think it’s a problem.

Has your GF found it hard supporting you? Have things been better between you since you’ve been off it? I bet she is so proud of you!

[danman83]

I think it’s good when partners stick around during bad times like these. Because we have to think would we do it if it was the other way round, and you shouldnt give up on people. So please don’t think suggesting to move on lol.

If you watch dr gabor I think his name is on you tube. He’s done loads of studies and addictions are from a childhood trauma. This is why on one of the steps off AA, step 4 is resentments. I had a lot towards my dad as he was scary with his temper and emotional abuse. Sorry if I have already said this I’ve spoke to so many people on here I forget lol. And we need to move on from these resentments. My sponsor said its like having hot coal in your hand. You need to let go or its gonna keep hurting you.

Another step is step 8 I think is were we make amends to people we have harmed. It’s like a cleansing working these steps and frees us from self pity and resentment.

I don’t know the full ins and outs. But it doesn’t seem that much, a lot of people have a few cans after work and a glass of wine. My mum n dad have done it for years and they are just normal average people. A lot of signs were it is bad is hiding beer around the house, shakes ect.. He’s not on spirits is he? So the unit intake is not to bad. He might be going for a walk then having a drink because he don’t want to upset you. And just fancys a beer. But then doing this is sneaking off to have a drink because u need one. But I don’t want to be making assumptions here. Only you can judge this.

I understand why your doing it, and you want to knock it on the head now before it’s too late. Just keep and eye on him and have a quiet chat. See if he will cut it down to a few cans on sat maybe. But this is entirely up to you. Just go with what u think is best.

God’s honest truth she’s not really supportive. I say I’m 3 months clean now, she just mumbles well done, 3 of her mates have put more effort in and said they are proud of me and that cheered me up. She’s been on coke with me a few times, but won’t have it now. Her friend has coke aswell and she is my trigger sometimes when she’s at mine, but she still invites her round knowing I will have coke with her. So she’s not that supportive. But then again she’s had enough. So I can’t blame her. I’ve told her none of her mates can come for a while now. She has to go theres. Lol.

[holkat]

Thanks for that recommendation that’s really interesting and I will have a look! And you know I’ve never really properly looked into the AA steps and some of those you’ve mentioned sound really useful. I can’t pretend to understand everything my boyfriend has been through but what I know and how he’s spoken about things, I know he despises his dad. His mum passed away when he was 11 and after that his dad became alcohol dependent and neglected him until he left at 16 to live with his older brother who helped him get a job and have a proper life. His dad moved them around a lot because of debts and would leave them alone at home for days with no money or food. I can understand why he would hate him so much, but I don’t think it’s something he has ever tried to face and deal with, I don’t think he ever could. His dad died when he was 24 and he says he went to his funeral just to make sure he was really dead. It’s horrible to say it so bluntly like that but after the hell his dad put him through, I don’t blame him. It’s part of the reason he was so endearing to me, when I met him and he told me all the terrible things in his life, not like I wanted to look after him but just the courage and strength he’s shown throughout his life after all that, how he worked his way up into a good job and had his kids I just admired that so much and still do. I think thats why i feel so strongly that I know he can get through anything, I don’t want this to be the thing that defeats him but maybe it is about him facing up to those resentments as you say and forgiving those people but I don’t know if he will ever be able to.

You are right it doesn’t sound that much and when I think back to last year it’s so much better. I worry because I know it could go back to that so quickly, he could drink 10 cans tomorrow and I’d be so worried. He doesn’t drink spirits, I don’t think he ever has in the time I’ve known him, it’s always lager. He will drink wine if it’s there. But like you say, it’s the way he slopes off and does it, and the fact he’s in public like not even in a pub (obviously no choice at the minute with pubs shut!) I’ve said to him loads, please don’t drink when you’re out, just drink at home it’s ok, I won’t nag or moan (and I won’t) if he was just doing it safely at home and obviously then it’s easier for me to keep an eye on it. But he just won’t and I think that’s my fault, because I’ve made too much of a big deal out of it.

I just wish he could see I just care about him and love him so much, I just want him to have the life he deserves after all the crap he’s put up with and I want to be there with him doing that. I don’t want him to throw it all away when I know he’s strong enough to do it. I just never know day by day how to deal with it, whether to keep trying to talk to him, or just step back and let him figure it out.

I’m sorry to hear your partner isn’t as supportive as you would like. I know what you mean about her having had enough, as you said I don’t know the full story and wouldn’t want to assume, but you’re together, you are doing what you need to do and she seems to be cooperating about her friends and things and that’s really positive.

I just think everything you’re doing sounds amazing and if it works for you that’s all that matters. It takes such determination and commitment which isn’t always easy and you’re there doing it! Keep going!

[danman83]

Bloody hell I’m suprised he is not worse than this with his past. Such a shame losing him mum so early.

I’m no expert but this more or less likely makes him like this with drink. It’s the classic drink and forget about it all. But alcohol is a depressant and makes it worse.

I’ve seen people share were they have been sexual abused by there parents and they have had to forgive them. One woman, her own mum kept on locking her under the sink as a kid and was hitting her. And I’m talking for hours maybe longer. And she forgave her.

Each to there own though. But it is suppose to help us move on and not let them win if this makes sence. Being the better person. Because if we don’t it effects the addict and all the family around.

I just read a a book called the twins of auswich, about the concentration camp, and the German doctor who was called the angel of death. He tortured twins and had an obsession with them, doing all sorts of experiments on them. Anyway in the book, she goes back to the auswich camp and forgives this doctor mengele, because she needed to move on, and that some people are just ill and we need to pray for them. And she felt so much better when she did. I guess it just don’t have to work in recovery aswell.

But everyone is different some people just are beyond forgiveness.

You probably have tried it already but just sit down both of you and talk amicably about it and meet each other half way, and set some healthy boundarys. Tell him its making you ill and you want to work as a team and build for the future together.

Thanks for your lovely comments, I’ve been coming on here about 2 year now I think and talking to you and others on here helps me in my recovery so much. So thanks ❤️

[holkat]

Hey,

Thanks for your last reply, I really do appreciate your comments and recommendations. It’s so valuable to me and many others sharing your experience they way you have so I hope you know how much I appreciate it!

We’ve had an ok week this week. My other half said he wouldn’t drink all week, and he had I think one drink on Sunday and that was it. I think he’s struggling with it but our biggest challenge is he will just not talk about it. I asked him yesterday how he’s feeling having not had a drink all week, just really calm and normal and he goes straight on the defensive ‘why are you going on about it like I’ve got a big problem, I’m fine’ so I said I was just trying to show him some compassion and he said ‘I don’t need compassion’. It breaks my heart at times but talking just isn’t something he can do.

I went shopping earlier and he asked if I would buy beers. I said I wouldn’t and he said ‘I haven’t had any for ages’ and it’s just made me feel so disheartened because I know now when he gets money next week he’ll buy them. And you know what? All the way around the supermarket, I feel so guilty. I looked down the aisle loads of times, it was actually hard not to because I knew he was peed off I wouldn’t buy them. He’s barely spoken to me since I got home.

I’m trying to be really open minded and remember that him not drinking for this many days is a big thing and no doubt it’s not pleasant for him. It’s still hard though.

Anyways…each day as it comes I suppose! I’m in touch with this family support group locally and they’ve been doing Zoom meetings in the pandemic, but it’s on a Friday afternoon and I can’t make it most weeks because of work. But they just set up a group WhatsApp and sent loads of other local support groups through for families so I am going to think about going to one of those.

Hope you’ve had a good week! Look after yourself, keep in touch! ☺️

[danman83]

It’s a bit strange how he just gets all defensive when you just ask him calmly. It’s probably because he was desperate for a drink.

It’s going to be a struggle with alcohol it’s everywhere. They say the biggest drug dealers are the government selling it. But joining a support group is a good idea and will help you and take some weight off your shoulders. Did he get the beer then from the supermarket?

Ive had a good weekend thanks. We went blackpool yesturday for my daughters 10th bday, she wanted to see the sunset over the beach, and it was great just being soba watching her face. ❤️

[danman83]

It’s a bit strange how he just gets all defensive when you just ask him calmly. It’s probably because he was desperate for a drink.

It’s going to be a struggle with alcohol it’s everywhere. They say the biggest drug dealers are the government selling it. But joining a support group is a good idea and will help you and take some weight off your shoulders. Did he get the beer then from the supermarket?

Ive had a good weekend thanks. We went blackpool yesturday for my daughters 10th bday, she wanted to see the sunset over the beach, and it was great just being soba watching her face. ❤️

[holkat]

I know, and this is what I’m always trying to understand, like is he unable to talk to me about it? Does he not thinks it’s a problem? Does he want to continue drinking and he’s annoyed because he thinks I’m going over the top? I feel like I never know where I stand or what to say. If I just don’t mention it, within a few days he’s back home after his walk drunk and we start all over again.

That’s so true with it being everywhere, and every social situation involves it, I can’t begin to imagine how hard it is for anyone trying to stay sober. No, I didn’t get him the beer and he has no money to get it himself, hence the cold shoulder when I got back! He’s not been great the last couple of days – he’s got a broken tooth which is bothering him but can’t get registered with a dentist because of Covid so I know that’s massively bothering him, plus not having money to drink. I just don’t know why he doesn’t feel he can lean on me or talk to me, I feel like it’s never going to happen. He took the kids back to their mums today, and then went out for a walk about 4pm, he’s still not back. I’ve text to see if he’ll be back soon and he just said no. I asked if he’s ok, he said, yeah. That’s all I get. No idea where he is, what he’s doing, or when he’ll be home, so I just sit here doing my own thing and being dragged emotionally from one extreme to the other. One minute I’m thinking he’s a grown man and I can’t control him, if he doesn’t want or need help from me that’s fine. Then the next minute I’m catastrophising thinking all kinds, what if he’s off cheating, stealing beers, what if he hurts himself? It’s so emotionally draining knowing what to do or think for the best.

I am so pleased to hear you had a lovely time in Blackpool! That is so sweet and I am sure that was the best feeling ever for you. Little does your daughter know just how strong and dedicated her dad is ☺️

[danman83]

It sounds like he wants to drink and he thinks your over the top, that’s just my opinion so I could be wrong.

The problem with someone who doesn’t want to quit, he won’t want to lean on you for comfort or to talk. If he did he would be doing everything possible and talking to you. My gf isn’t supportive like you come across. But I don’t know what he’s thinking if he really wants to stop or not.

Is he back now? Where does he go? Does he go a friends house?

I know what u mean back to square one. I’m dreading relapsing. Because this is the furthest I’ve got and to relapse i would be gutted.

Just go with your gut instinct if you think he is up to something that normally is right. Well sometimes. Or just have a civil convo whats he been up to and that.

Thanks for that, she had a lot of fun. I just hope it continues.

[holkat]

No I think you’re absolutely right! I think he wants to, I don’t think he would ever want to go completely sober. I feel like it’s got to a point now though where it’s been made into such a big thing I don’t know if we’ll be able to get back to any kind of normality or nice relationship. If that’s how it is, that’s life, but it’s sad. I do try and be supportive but maybe I’m just overbearing LOL! I just believe in him and love him, I want the best for him that’s all.

He came back about 8pm. No idea where he goes – he does walk a lot so he probably does just walk and walk for miles. I don’t really think he’s doing anything he shouldn’t but thoughts like that just get taken over by anxiety in my head and it’s hard fighting it off sometimes.

God it’s like my counselling session on here isn’t it haha! Thanks for your comments. It’s nice to just have a space to express how I’m feeling and I appreciate people being there and responding, it really means a lot.

Well I believe in you and I am sure many other people do! You’ve come this far and it’s one day at a time, like you said to me ☺️ You’re doing amazing ❤️ Xx

[danman83]

I know what you mean that you just want the best for him. But then it’s that old saying.. About taking a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink it. It’s mad how many people drink after work and don’t think they have a problem. Like a can or 2 after a bath at night and that. You do end up relying on it.

It’s natural to ponder things, we all do it and question things I wouldn’t worry about it. It just shows we care.

Your right it is like counselling haha. But it does work talking to others and venting your frustration or even helping others. I always say that one person can just say one thing and it can change your life. I’m probably going over the top here, but it’s true. That’s why I’ve always come on here, it helps me and if I can give some good advice, both see the benefits.

Thanks so much for that it means a lot ❤️x

[danman83]

I know what you mean that you just want the best for him. But then it’s that old saying.. About taking a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink it. It’s mad how many people drink after work and don’t think they have a problem. Like a can or 2 after a bath at night and that. You do end up relying on it.

It’s natural to ponder things, we all do it and question things I wouldn’t worry about it. It just shows we care.

Your right it is like counselling haha. But it does work talking to others and venting your frustration or even helping others. I always say that one person can just say one thing and it can change your life. I’m probably going over the top here, but it’s true. That’s why I’ve always come on here, it helps me and if I can give some good advice, both see the benefits.

Thanks so much for that it means a lot ❤️x

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